Exchange w/ WSJ James Taranto on payroll taxes

Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:05 PM Subject: Who pays
'payroll' taxes?

From: Arnold Nelson Sent: to: Wall Street Journal, Best of
the Web today:

In your  Tuesday 18 September 2012 column you refer to
“...60% of such households paid federal payroll taxes...” and
“someone who paid payroll taxes....”

The Statistical Abstract of the United States says that 73% of
all the taxes (including income, socsec, and  medicare) the
federal government collects comes from wages withheld by
employers - the employers write the actual checks on their
bank accounts, not the employees.  Sure, the employer
occasionally reminds the employees in writing that if they
weren't forced to do this under jail threat, they would have
given the money to the employee.

Why don't a majority of the House of reps, 60 Senators, and
the President change US Tax code from 'every employer
making payment of wages shall deduct and withhold upon
such wages a tax...' to 'every employer making payment of
wages shall pay all wages to the employee....' The employer
would still calculates the tax, including a note to the
employee: "Here is what the feds are expecting you personally
to remit in 30 days."

This would be difficult to do, but returning the responsibility
of writing monthly checks to fund the government to the
90% of voters who are wage earners would encourage much
more careful selection of who they vote to Congress.

Arnold H Nelson

====================================

Mon, 9/24/12, 9:38AM James Taranto, wrote:


I like the idea for the same reason you do, but there is a
downside: A lot more taxes would end up going unpaid.
Making up the difference would require either higher taxes
on those who do pay or a bigger IRS.

====================================

Monday 24 September 2012 12:36PM
From: Arnold Nelson Sent: To: Taranto, James  Subject:
RE: Who pays 'payroll' taxes?

Mr Taranto, thanks so much for your response, and
especially for admitting that my proposition has merit.

I did warn that it would be 'difficult', and certainly the reason
they thot up the present scheme in 1937, and continued it in
1943 w/ the current tax payment act.

The solution:  TV!  That is, you put 26 plastic balls in a big
desk top cage, each w/ a letter of the alphabet on it. Then once
a quarter you have a big TV show w/ a neat looking chick
spinning the ball, then picking a single ball - everyone w/ last
names starting the ball letter must start paying the new way,
or... the same result that forces the employers to
participate now:  they go to jail!  In 7 years it's fixed!!

If we don't do something, how long can we continue w/ the
entire population continuously screaming: "I paid in! I
deserve a monthly check!! I deserve medicare!!!

Arn Nelson in Chicago

PS Thanks again for the response.  It's a real honor!  You
must get as much email as Rush Limbaugh.

========================================

From: Taranto, James Subject: RE: Who pays 'payroll' taxes?

To: "'Arnold Nelson'" Monday  8:35 PM  24 September  2012

The central question is not how you phase it in but how you
enforce it, which you seem to treat as an afterthought: “the
same result that forces the employers to participate now:
they go to jail!”

Employers are fewer in number than taxpayers, and they have
a greater incentive to comply with the law. It’s expensive to
put people on trial and to maintain them in prison. To make
the threat of punishment credible, it would take a dramatic,
perhaps wholly impracticable, expansion of the IRS.

==========================================

Tuesday 9:03 AM 24 September 2012
"Who pays 'payroll' taxes?"

From: Arnold Nelson To: "JamesTaranto"

You make a good point - but no answer to the question:

"If we don't do something, how long can we continue w/ the
entire population continuously screaming: "I paid in! I
deserve a monthly check!! I deserve medicare!!!"

And we can add to that, continuing to elect half wits to the
national legislature.

What's to stop us from becoming another Soviet Russia or
North korea?

Arn Nelson

=================================


RE: Who pays 'payroll' taxes? Tues 25 Sept 2012 9:09AM
From: "Taranto, James"  To: "'Arnold Nelson'"

If taxpayers were actually writing a check to the government
every month, that would only accentuate their feeling if
having “paid in” and deserving something back in return.

========================================

RE: Who pays 'payroll' taxes?  Tues 25 Sept 2012 11:14 AM

From:  "Arnold Nelson"   To:  "JamesTaranto"

JT: "If taxpayers were actually writing a check to the
government every month, that would only accentuate their
feeling if having “paid in” and deserving something back in
return."

Well sure, when someone pays for something, they expect
some return.

As of now, they are NOT paying in, but led to believe they
'deserve' a return.

Another point about the employers - they are sending in hefty
checks, but they're not taking it from their children's college
funds, for sure.  They handle it like any other business
expense - add it to the cost of their product, converting the
alleged SocSec/Medicare 'contributions' to a national
sales tax.

I guess it looks harmless to some. but it's a lie, and I think
when the national government is lying to the public it is a
serious problem.

Also, the closest SocSec gets to being Constitutional is
Fleming v. Nestor 1961: "….The noncontractual interest of
an employee covered by the [Social Security] Act cannot be
soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose
right to benefits are based on his contractual premium
payments."

I did a  quick search of the Constitution for medical sounding
words, and came up with nothing.

Arnold  Nelson